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Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: tokcok (---.net.my) Date: November 10, 2006 04:47PM
hi everyone...
i am new here and was so surprised that there are so many people out there selling source codes for casino,sportsbook,betting exchange etc.
Can some kind soul enlighten me what is the catch? are they scam?
rgds,
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: yorktown (Moderator) Date: November 10, 2006 06:21PM
Some are a scam. You need to watch it these days.
Selling of software has become a buyers market in recent days. Hence the aggressive sales techniques.
Webmaster
StartCasino.com
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: atencorps (---.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) Date: November 10, 2006 06:26PM
Mine is not a scam . I can provide documentation and demo to back up my sales.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Alexander (---.lv.lv.cox.net) Date: November 10, 2006 10:45PM
The source code is not really worth much by itself. Multiple other aspects are important and necessary as well. For example, multiple ways of accepting payment, the technical support to upgrade the software over time, a strong affilate and marketing program, and a customer support staff.
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/10/06 10:45PM by Alexander.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mediacasino.com (---.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) Date: November 11, 2006 08:50AM
The source code may worth really much in fact, it depends on what type of code it is. Most source codes out there are stolen or sellers are not authorized to distribute them, but I suppose there could be fair deals, so watch them out. Another catch is that many software scripts are not complete, contain bugs or poor algorithms and logic because they were produced by companies who have no actual experience in gambling business, they may be just IT developers who create online shops, web design, etc. We had a number of clients who purchased source codes from unknown sellers and then had to hire us for almost full upgrade. In fact, purchasing source codes would be pure gambling for you, so welcome to the gambling industry :)
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Joseph Green (---.proxy.aol.com) Date: November 11, 2006 12:44PM
Mediacasino.com Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The source code may worth really much in fact, it
> depends on what type of code it is. Most source
> codes out there are stolen or sellers are not
> authorized to distribute them, but I suppose there
> could be fair deals, so watch them out. Another
> catch is that many software scripts are not
> complete, contain bugs or poor algorithms and
> logic because they were produced by companies who
> have no actual experience in gambling business,
> they may be just IT developers who create online
> shops, web design, etc. We had a number of clients
> who purchased source codes from unknown sellers
> and then had to hire us for almost full upgrade.
> In fact, purchasing source codes would be pure
> gambling for you, so welcome to the gambling
> industry :)
This entire statement is correct. You have to be aware of STOLEN SOURCE CODES, AND UNSTABLE/INCOMPLETE SOURCE CODES. Also, the big problem of outsourced work to 3rd world countries that know nothing about gambling, or have little experience.
Source codes are extremely valuable assets, but you need to have your own technical workers to advance,or maintain them. The online market for gaming source codes is not overly saturated, such as other sectors of the industry. Source codes in the gaming industry will generally apreciate over time.
Only purchase source codes which were developed by a company who has roots in the gaming industry, and each application has been tested for over one year at least.
Spending endless amount of resources to develop your own is pointless now because you have options to purchase legitimate source codes, for reasonable prices. Make sure the company provides you technical assistance and support for a minimum of one year.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mcluhan (---.ppp.ucc-net.ca) Date: November 12, 2006 07:51AM
My company develops software. I back the comments posted above, unless the vendor can support the software, it's useless when it's gaming software, especially multiplayer. In 99.9 percent of the cases the software will be pirated. Could have security breaches, back-doors, etc. For gaming software to run in a stable situation, it needs to be supported. It can only be properly supported by someone who has an indepth knowledge of the code, and hopefully has engineered the code themselves. Even when dealing with a company that has engineered the code, and suppose their lead project programmer departs, this can cause major headaches for the client running the product. If you truely have a valid business case, buying cheap source code can only hurt. Support is fundamental to business continuity. Even if you are a programming shop and try to reverse engineer 3rd party code, most programmers will tell you its easier to start from scratch.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: JerryG (124.106.184.---) Date: November 12, 2006 09:26AM
I would agree with all of that. I think that it depends on your purpose as well though. Some people would take the source code as a jumping off point for a more "private label" product, which will save at least a year in development time.
In this case, you shouldn't be concerned about these issues, nor should you require any additional support past the first 60 days. I would not want to be dealing with the original seller for a year, although, those above would obviously disagree with me.
If I was going to use source code in this manner, then I would expect to have my own developers to work out any issues of buggy (or missing) code, faulty randomness, etc. It's good to have the original source on hand for the first month or two in order to get your own team brought up to speed, but really, I'd rather any changes/fixes be done by an in-house development team, not as part as some extended service plan, which may very well be just said in order to complete a sale anyway.
You should be having your own team analyze the code, test the code, debug it, etc anyway, especially if you are going to have live wagers on the system. You shouldn't trust the person making the sale to do this for you. That brings up Mcluhans point about what if the lead engineer had been gone and the others would then be lost.
Yikes. I can't imagine what a nightmare programming job that would be. Nothing should ever be engineered in such a way that it is dependant upon one specific person being involved. Personally, I would never deal with any source code that did not use the principles of the Rational Rose approach to UML. With unified modeling, anyone can pick up on the code at any point and run with it as if they were the original author. Anything less is not worth your time.
But I suspect all of this is mute anyway. I suspect that anyone on this forum who is considering a source code purchase is not doing so because they are looking for a jumping off point, but because they are looking for an alternative that is cheaper than paying for a turnkey license. If that is your intended purpose, just remember, you get what you pay for. ;-)
Global Gaming News
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/12/06 09:28AM by JerryG.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: tokcok (---.net.my) Date: November 12, 2006 05:19PM
thanks for all the valuable advice which give me a better idea....
i would like to start on another discussion in a new thread...pls contribute generously...
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: tokcok (---.net.my) Date: November 12, 2006 05:27PM
even if you have in house programmers, it is not always that they are up to the job.
i got experience in this.Hire someone who have so much portfolio to speak out, but he cant complete my task.
How do we determine the suitability for programmers in gaming area?
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: JerryG (124.106.190.---) Date: November 13, 2006 02:33AM
That is why I am such a fan of Rational Rose. Even is a programmer (software engineer, whatever they like to be called) has absolutely no history with UML, they can easily pick it up and jump right into the programming as if they had been involved since day 1.
I think your problem might be organizational. Typically speaking, your development effort should be split into 3 teams:
Server Side Development - The server side modules typically control the structure of the game and the game logic.
Client Side Development - The client side modules create the interface between the user (player) and the server modules, which is what makes the games engaging, and also makes it so that we can understand what is happening instead of seeing raw data.
Creative Development - This team makes all of the graphics, animations, and everything that makes the games pretty.
My guess is that the people you are talking about are trying to do all of these jobs themselves. That may technically be possible, but it will not get the best results. Each of those teams requires different skills, and needs people with different sets of strengths and weaknesses. You may find a 'jack of all trades' who can technically put something together alone, but as the phrase goes, 'jack of all trades,but master of none'. That's really not what you want.
In addition to those development teams, you also need a strong QA team to hash out any problems and to send it back to the developers for revision. This is particularly true if you are doing one of these source code purchases - QA is an absolute necessity because you will have to search very hard to find a package the is defect-free.
Global Gaming News
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mediacasino.com (---.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) Date: November 13, 2006 03:35AM
Jerry, you are right in general, but unfortunately these methods won't really work in gambling. Don't forget, we are speaking about gambling industry, so development models that are good for Microsoft will not be efficient in gaming. If you handle your development the way you state it, in just 2-3 months you will find a topic here about the sale of your source codes that will instantly devaluate all your efforts.
Concerning the team structure, you forget that all those three parts you mentioned should be first planned in general and then there should be special unit who will eventually put everything together and do the work called "integration". Long time to explain, but your proposed development model will not be efficient in this particular case.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: JerryG (124.106.190.---) Date: November 13, 2006 03:50AM
If a source code is found for sale on an open market, that is because of faulty security procedures with the management of the finished product, not because of the structure of the programming.
It may not be suitable to your particular needs or concerns. Every case is different. I know of at least one high profile software developed in this manner and is not available for purchase, so far as I am aware.
Integration is important, yes. I did not go into that because it can be very complex. Especially if you are dealing with a variety of products (casino, poker, sports, horses, p2p, etc) that have all been developed separately and must be fused into a single product. That can get to be too tricky to explain via message board.
But really, I think most of this is not truly worth discussing. I would venture to say that 90% of people reading here would be looking to buy source code because they can't/won't budget funds for a normal turnkey license, and in that case, they probably can't/won't budget funds for in-house teams either. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it's my general impression.
Global Gaming News
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: tokcok (---.omega10.maxonline.com.sg) Date: November 13, 2006 06:40AM
jeerrg,
i have the same impression in that most are trying to get cheap or sell many.
Thats why when someone emailed me about custom development at 7-10k, i was shocked. I cant believe it is so cheap. I know the cost of orbis,finsoft and a few other companies...most of them cost in the hundreds of thousands pounds..This make me really suspicious on the quality of solutions sold here.
thanks for ur posts.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mediacasino.com (---.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) Date: November 13, 2006 10:02AM
Jerry, the code will definitely be stolen if you get a steady "flow" of programming teams hanging in your offices having access to your software. Besides, it is very difficult to manage such development because different teams and individual programmers have different practices of work. I don't know who you mean when referring to that high profile company, maybe they are just very lucky :)
I fully agree that most of the guys out there are looking for the low cost start-up solutions, so we are mostly targeting this audience.
2tokkcok:
That was not someone who e-mailed you, that was me, the price for the basic sportsbook development is really $7-10k and I don't quite understand why it shocked you. As I have mentioned, the work would be based on our existing product and will really include all the basic features of the sportsbook software. Generally, sportsbook is the easiest gamblibng product from the point of view of development. I asked you many questions about how you see the development, what features you require, do you have a technical plan, etc. but you ignored all of them. And now you say you are suspicious of the quality of the products that you haven't even discussed, and I'm sure that was the way you communicated with other software providers. I set realistic price to start the ball rolling, if you do have hundreds of thousands of pounds we may have advanced deal on this, but I suppose that you don't.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: yorktown (Moderator) Date: November 19, 2006 01:16AM
Mediacasino:
$7-10K for the development of a sportsbook source code sounds very basic to me....That is, I can envision a database and a simple text-based website.
I imagine that by 7-10K you are suggesting outsourcing from a country like India. And that means DELAYS....
If I had a computer source code project and was considering India, I would do the following:
1) Get 3-4 companies to work/compete on the project. Offer a reasonable (but still cheap) amount to provide the code. Each of the companies need to produce a product in the time period.
2) Tell them that the winner of the project (that is the company that submits the BEST product within the time specifications) also wins and $50,000 per year service contract. That is they take care of the site and get $50K annually.
With incentives like this, I would bet that I would receive the best product in a timely manner.
Webmaster
StartCasino
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mediacasino.com (---.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) Date: November 22, 2006 12:13PM
Yorktown, if none of the selected Indian companies have any experience in gambling development the results could be quite disappointing to you :) You will get into all the usual pitfalls I mentioned in my previous posts. Also, most Indian companies are not interested in the ongoing support, they produce code under the "do it and forget" subtitle, just because creating low or medium quality products in bulk is more profitable for them because they have steady flow of work. They don't need that pain in the ass supporting you, especially if they have no professionals in the gambling industry, because you may have too specific issues. You should incorporate high quality project manager in-house if you want to have any efficiency from general outsourcing to India.
We are obviously not an Indian company, and our customization includes mainly design work and some questions regarding line movement and zero-risk management. We may also do some add-ons to the main engine if needed be. Of course the product won't have some certain features of a large betting operation, for example if you want to have your own call center, the software for it will cost much more than the sportsbook itself. The same is true for some other software parts. But generally anyone who is going to run a start-up operation will get the system that will look like a million dollar corporation :) This product successfully competes with sportsbook turnkey solutions that are on the market, and you can buy turnkey software for about $5000-6000. So the price range of $5000-10000 is quite sufficient for the sportsbook development. Of course you should have good marketing budget to get it from the ground, but we had a client who managed to start out with about $25000 total budget.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Drunk gambler (85.195.119.---) Date: November 23, 2006 04:35PM
Mediacasino, what clients have you got?
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: Mediacasino.com (---.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) Date: November 25, 2006 11:41AM
Drunk gambler, nice nickname :)) What do you prefer, vodka-martini, or just good beer?
Most of our clients are from US and UK, we also had contracts with companies from Malaysia and Russia. That is because these are the most active gambling markets.
Re: Why are there so many sale of source codes?
Posted by: yorktown (Moderator) Date: November 25, 2006 10:42PM
I think that with all that's going on right now in this industry, we ALL deserve a good drink. So Drunk Gambler is an excellent name.
Cheers!
Webmaster
StartCasino . com
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/25/06 10:42PM by yorktown.
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